Cody Fournier, LICSW, didn’t originally set out to specialize in OCD. He came to it through his own experience as a client, when a therapist told him he had unusually strong insight into his own OCD and should consider treating it professionally. You can read more of that personal story in Cody’s own blog post.
In this episode of the Get to Know OCD Podcast, Cody sits down with Dr. Patrick McGrath, NOCD’s Chief Clinical Officer, to talk about what changed for him once he joined NOCD, from the training, to the ethics of how new therapists get equipped, to why he doesn’t see himself ever leaving the field. Below is the conversation, lightly edited for clarity and length.
From client to clinician
Dr. McGrath: So, why a therapist? How did that come about?
Cody: I get asked that a lot. I used to joke I was headed for the NFL until a knee injury got in the way. But really, I think what changed me is when I sought therapy at NOCD, the therapist told me, “You have pretty good insight on your OCD. OCD is like a hidden epidemic. There’s not a lot of good providers out there. I think you’d be really good.” And I asked if NOCD was hiring. I’d already finished grad school, I was doing therapy, trauma work and all that. And I thought, my life has been miserable with OCD, but I was able to get better with it. Let me help others.
Once he was hired and learned more about exposure and response prevention therapy (ERP), the results surprised him.
Cody: I saw people getting better quickly. Even at my other jobs as a therapist, I had never seen someone feel better this quickly. I’m like, this stuff works. And then it was so gratifying. I literally saw people who didn’t want to live anymore, and now they want to live. There’s no better feeling, no price I can put on that. The reward is remarkable. I don’t think I’m ever going to not be an OCD therapist or leave NOCD.
What NOCD’s training gave him that grad school didn’t
Dr. McGrath: You went to grad school, you had OCD yourself, and I’m betting what you knew before you joined us and went through our training was a thimble compared to an Olympic-size pool of OCD knowledge, right?
Cody: Yeah. Grad school was great, I did the clinical social work route, but I learned more clinically at NOCD than I did in grad school. I can treat BFRBs, OCD, I’m working on BDDs, trauma, hoarding. There’s so much they don’t touch on in grad school. If there was a way to just skip grad school and go straight there, I would have done that.
The training is remarkable, and why I love it so much is, when I meet with a client, it’s not just me. I have a whole team that has my back. If I don’t know how to treat a certain symptom, I can talk with the best experts in OCD in the country, if not the world. My confidence has grown so much just from going to consultations, talking to experts, and being able to ask questions to learn. Not once have I ever asked a question at NOCD and had leadership or a coworker say that was a stupid question. It’s more like, I want you to keep learning, I’m going to teach you this.
Dr. McGrath agreed that graduate programs broadly under-prepare new therapists in evidence-based treatment.
Dr. McGrath: I think there’s not enough focus on evidence-based treatments at all, and therefore we’re doing a disservice to people by not knowing those things when we graduate, but we can still go get a license and practice things like diaphragmatic breathing and muscle relaxation, when that isn’t necessarily the best treatment.
Why this matters ethically
Cody: I feel like ethically, NOCD does an amazing job hiring, even with associates, putting them through training, and then sending them out to work. A lot of people, myself included, get out of grad school, start as an associate, and companies just inundate you with clients. You’re like, I don’t have all these skills, I don’t know what to do, my confidence isn’t there because I’ve never been able to apply it. At NOCD, you at least have that foundation, the CAMs, the mock clients, that initial experience, instead of a typical grad student who goes straight into working cases they don’t have experience with.
I’ve dealt with that. I was working with cases a long time ago I shouldn’t have been working with, and that’s an ethical issue in my opinion, to treat someone when you’re not an expert or specialist, and potentially harm them. I love how NOCD really equips people with that initial baseline knowledge and then continues to encourage and strengthen their ability through consultations and skill-building.
Never treating alone
Dr. McGrath: I’m so glad you talked about the training people go through, because there was so much time and energy put into it, and we continue to tweak it as much as possible. We want people to know that the therapists they’re working with have the knowledge they need about OCD and ERP. And you just described exactly what I was hoping for — that the training really gave you what you needed.
Cody: Exactly. And I’ll forever continue to try to promote this to former colleagues in therapy, or any therapist who wants the best training and wants to specialize in OCD and related disorders. I can’t say enough. The training I received is second to none, but it’s also the continuous support. There are going to be hard cases to navigate, but I’m never alone. The constant consultations, the ability to send a message on Slack and get twenty other colleagues’ expertise, is very refreshing and reassuring. I don’t ever feel like I’m alone. And it’s not just OCD, you get to work with a range of other diagnoses too.
The people are the reason he stays
Looking back on the team he’s built relationships with, Cody said the people are as much a part of the pull as the clinical work itself.
Cody: A lot of my colleagues are becoming really close friends, and again, I don’t think I’m ever going to leave. If you want to work at NOCD, I highly recommend giving it a shot. If a job position opens up, you won’t be disappointed.
NOCD’s mission is to restore hope for people with OCD through better awareness and treatment, and we know the key to that mission is investing in our therapists, to ensure they’re equipped to deliver this life-changing care. If you’re a licensed therapist looking to deliver specialized, evidence-based care and want to see if NOCD might be the right fit, visit our careers page to learn more.
